VOX ToneLab Patch Exchange

Hey Kewlpack;
Good to see that you found this site. Looking forward to getting your inputs as well. I've read some of them at a few other sites.
Hope you are doing well.
hotraman

I'm not sure how much of a runaway success the TLSE has been for VOX. Don't get me wrong...I love my TLSE, but unless the revenue from the TLSE has been compelling over a certain period of time, they won't build a new version.

Unless the revenue has been compelling *and* there is a competitor in reach of threatening their market, then you can be sure there won't be an update to the TLSE.

If they do make a TLSE 2.0, I hope they address the most-significant shortcomings, in terms of the compressor quality (not to mention its grouping with WAH and distortion pedals), as well as make the high-gain distortion sounds a bit stronger. (my short list of gripes)

-5thumbs

Tonelab SE the forgotten child?
Its seems like Vox does more product development with their guitar amps ( like the Valvetronix series) and stomp boxes, than they do with improving the TLSE. I love the tones I get from the TLSE, but I don't think they are going to blow the whole thing up. They've got Korg to do that for them. A rackmount version of the Tonelab would be cool, but you would still need a foot controller to use it. I thought about buying the GT8 Pro at one time, but the price was steep. Finally, I would agree with a previous post... its all about potential sales.... it appears the POD XLT and the GT8 have sold more units than the Tonelab. But that doesn't mean its better.

It seems that, unknowingly, Vox would be onto a sure winner if they tweaked the TLSE to perfection. I've not played a Boss GT unit or the GNX3000, but have owned Line6 and Zoom units. The TLSE simply has a more organic, richer ("tubier", dare I say it) basic tonal quality that the others can't seem to match. Come on Vox/Korg/whoever, pull your finger out and give the TLSE a bit of tweaking and a bit of TLC !!

Seems to me that Vox may have a bit of a quandary. Of the non-amp modelers out there the Tonelab seems to be the one that could actually appeal to the real vintage tube amp lovers. The problem for Vox is that these people are often very tough to convince. Probably because there have been so many mediocre attempts at recreating the sound of real tube amps.

I think they are damn close but I will admit that when I plug into the real thing, there is a difference. It's the versatility and convenience that keeps me using the Tonelab in my main rig. I would like to see them continue to refine the technology but I agree with many of the statements above; they just aren't selling as many units as Line6, Boss, etc. If they aren't making a significant profit they aren't likely to focus as much to development.

Maybe using a real power tube instead of the preamp tube is the way. Wouldn't it be possible to build in some sort of attenuator?

My wish list:
1 - A noise reduction type button for the wah selector.
2 - FX1 & 2 (FX3 unnecessary?). Green = FX1 / Red = FX2. The amp and cabinet lights show the chanel selection right!!
3 - Have low settings equalling zero instead of 1.0 like compressor for example.
4 - I don't know about the technical stuff about the preamp but sounds good!

About the distortion:
If you want to play hard, heavy stuff you need a guitar that can handle the task and I think the tonelabse does not try to compensate for bad pickups etc.. that said a clearer, more defined marshall, recto etc could be sorted out.

By the way
--- KEEP THE TWO PEDALS --- KEEP THE TWO PEDALS --- KEEP THE TWO PEDALS --- KEEP THE TWO PEDALS --- KEEP THE TWO PEDALS --- KEEP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I rely on them and love the flexibility they bring, it's why the tonelabse won over the boss in the first place!!!!

I've owned my Tonelab SE almost 2 years now. There's plenty of things Vox did well on the Tonelab SE, but here's a list of things I think Vox could do better on the next Tonelab, assuming we're talking about a PRO level Tonelab here.

Major Beefs (Quarter Pounders)

1. With only one Pedal section, you can't cascade a wah into a fuzz, or a fuzz into a phaser, or whatever. There should be three identical pedal sections. Most of the existing pedal effects are pretty good, but a really nasty psychedelic fuzz like the Fuzzrite would have been nice. A good metal distortion like some of the Digitechs I've played would be nice, too. Notably missing is a 6, 7 or 10-band graphic EQ, which is commonly found in the pedal chain of many well-known guitarists.

2. The expression pedals on my Tonelab SE squeak even after being oiled multiple times, and they slip a little under their own weight because they are not properly counterbalanced. Vox needs to work on the hinge, and make the front end of the pedal heavier so it stays up when you remove your foot. It would be nice if you didn't have to open the case to get to the adjustment screws.

Minor Beefs (Sliders) (these would make it a really PRO unit)

1. The whole idea of building a pedal board with editing buttons that sits on the floor... is stupid. You can't edit with the board on the floor, but you can't use the pedals with it sitting on a table. The original tabletop Tonelab made more sense, and the next Tonelab should be a 19" rack mount unit, with a VC-12 type of pedal unit as standard equipment. The pedal unit should have a removable cord, perhaps a 15-foot cord as standard and an optional 40-foot heavy-duty cord for stage use. Even then, the MIDI software is still a necessity for easy editing (the editing software needs some work, too).

2. Add some new compressor models, such as the DBX 165, or the Janglebox, for example.

3. I have very few complaints about the amp and cab models, they're the high point of the unit. However, there is no model of a single-ended, true class A amp, like the Fender Champ. The Vox amps are not really Class A, they're push-pull, class AB with cathode bias (the British call this class A apparently, but in the US, we don't). My only other criticism would be that the amp models that use a tube rectifier should sag a little more when cranked, an adjustable sag control would be nice. Also, mic positiong on the cab models would be nice.

4. The noise reduction (NR) fizzes noticeably on both attack and decay. It's usable, but could be a lot better.

5. There should be a 4-band parametric EQ between the amp model and the channel volume. It should have A/B settings for the two channels. It would be nice if it had an automatic unity gain switch.

6. Modulation section: The rotary speaker simulator sounds like a bad 2-speed phaser with excessive panning. Rotary should be completely reworked. The Textrem would benefit from having an LFO waveform select. And a minimum speed of 1.0 hz is a bit fast to use it as an autopanner. The minimum speed should be 0.1 hz. The pitch bender is extremely glitchy at all settings, and suffers from too much high end loss when bending flat. When used as a digital whammy with the expression pedal, it randomly produces a weird flange effect when returning the pedal to the zero pitch bend position, like you can hear both direct and effect outputs even with the direct output turned off. I doubt this is a defect in my particular unit, but rather a firmware bug, as a couple other Tonelabs I tried did the same thing.

7. All the delays in the Mod and Delay sections should have 0.1 ms resolution for delay times below 20 ms. This would give better tunability for those pitched resonant feedback effects.

8. Delay section: Better overall support of adjustable parameters for the expression pedals is needed (this goes for the Reverb and Mod sections as well). Also, the Reverse delay takes too long to kick in after you start playing (that is, if the delay time is 2 sec, you wait about that long to hear anything). It should be possible to feed the input continuously and adjust the output level or mix with the expression pedals, so there is backward effect immediately when you want it. Also, the Stereo echo should have a left-right output reverse.

9. Overlap of Delay and Modulation effects so you could combine, say, Classic Chorus (from Mod section) with Pitch Bender (duplicated in Delay section).

10. Reverb section: The reverb models are acceptable, but they're all mediocre sounding. In fact, none of the reverb models sounds as good as the ones built into my old sound card (Yamaha DSP Factory). The only ones I use regularly are Spring2 and Gate. The whole Reverb section needs improvement.

11. There should be parallel and series-parallel routing options for the Mod, Delay, and Reverb sections, not just series routing options.

12. The post-effects should die out naturally when you switch patches while playing. Worse yet, the post-effects glitch just switching A/B channel (this is especially audible in the reverb).

13. The tube should be a lot easier to replace. Assuming the next Tonelab is a rack mount unit, the tube should be on the back (forget that eye-candy, red LED thing, the tube doesn't need to be visible). The socket should be partially recessed into the chassis so it doesn't stick out too much, with a half-size metal cover. Then the tube would be easy to replace. The socket should have gold plated contacts.

14. Vox should put back the S/PDIF output, but coaxial (RCA connector) next time, not optical as on the original Tonelab. Coaxial is compatible with a lot more sound cards. Or, have both.

15. Dual output support for direct PA and live stage monitoring would have been nice. You should have the option of bypassing the cab models in one output group, while still using them in the other output group. That output group should also have inverse cabinet models, so that if you're using guitar amps as stage monitors, you could (sort of) EQ out the amp cabinet and use the cab models for more tonal variation. This way, you would be able to go direct to the PA, use guitar amps as stage monitors, and still achieve a fairly consistent tone from both.

16. The unit needs an input sensitivity control with detents so you can use the same patches with different guitars.

17. A clipping LED for the post-effects would be a helpful addition.

18. Overall, bigger LED/LCD displays. Longer patch name support. More LEDs and better resolution in the tuner.

some thoughts:
seperate 'dirt' section for od pedals, fuzz etc and assignable to the A and B channels

Adjustible parameters for the cab section, maybe adjusting the tunned frequncey? how dead or deep they sound etc? I think some digitech stuff does something similar

I agree, KEEP THE TWO PEDALS!

delay spillover between patches

More insert loops, ability to put them anywhere in the chain.

Ability to combine (in an adjustible manner) channels A and B

Midi cc send and recieve, I don't think the TLSE can do this, I could be wrong.

jacks to connect extension control pedals, ie be able to have it in both program select and fx modes with different pedals doing each.

at least one parametric eq with hi and lo cut able to go anywhere in the chain. Maybe an eq section with choices of graphic, parametric etc with adjustable Q etc?

signal delay L/R ie delay L signal by 10ms for a particular patch.

assign expression pedal to pan.

Thats all I can think of for now.

www.phyllasoma.com

I just want to plug my guitar into the PA and have it vacuum the floors. oh and do the dishes and scrub the toilet.
www.selfdistruction.com

I suppose if you had the cash to spend, you could use the gt-8 in the loop of the TLSE or visa versa and only use the amp modeling of the TLSE then use the effects of the gt-8.

I use the TL (Desktop) in the loop of the gt-8. This is a very good combination as you can imagine. Here are my favorites so far: (1) TL JCM preamp into to a full range gt preamp and 4x12 cab. (2) TL Fender Bassman preamp into the gt-8 Marshall (gives the gt-8 a tubier tone). (3) gt-8 Twin is very real sounding by itself. (4) gt-8 JC-120 (same as 3). (5) TL Vox AC-30 preamp into gt-8 with Tone Modify FX Resonator - adds the resonance of a speaker cab - actually, I think I have this effect on all my patches. Sorry to ramble, I could go on forever probably. Does anyone else have this combo?

This is a older thread...I wanted to add that Vox should have stereo sends/returns.

Chico

www.thefabuloushouserockers.com

"When the power of love is greater than the love of power, there will be world peace." -Jimi Hendrix