VOX ToneLab Patch Exchange

what you might do is take a field recorder (like a Zoom H2)in when you can try it out again and record the tone your after, then play it back and try to tweak your SE to sound like it.
www.selfdistruction.com
http://groups.google.com/group/tonelab-patch-exchange

I am currently running my strat into the TLLE, BBE sonic stomp, and then into the power section of a Roland Jazz Chorus 120.

Ive been playing for 30 plus years. @0 of those years in various bands playing clubs all over the south east. Ive played all the great fender amps, marshall, matchless, and many other great tube amps.

They're all great and do what they do real good. A fender sounds like a fender and will not do marshall, ect...

The TLLE rig Im playing right now gives me some of the best fender tones Ive ever had, and marshall, and everthing in between.

Ive done side by side A/B comparisons and I tell you the truth, the TLLE sounds absolutely great. The secret is what you plug the output of the TLLE into. The roland amp, (an amp I would never choose on its on merit, although it does get great clean tones), has really been magic for me. The BBe is also part of the magic. With this rig Im getting really organic and dynamic tones of all kinds and at any volume.

I build and repair tube amps. I own fender black face amps and marshall amps. I personnally prefer the TLLE. When its set up right, the TLLE gets tone as good as the tube amps it models, and in many cases, even closer to the studio sounds than the actuall tube amps.

This is because you can place the effects in the proper place in the chain. For example, youll hear a great marshall tone on a recording, but it has reverb on it. A truly great marshall tone requires the power tubes to distort, putting the reverb befor this stage is problmatic. In the studio, you would record the marshall, and then add reverb to it. This is easily done with the TLLe.

So , in A/B comparisons, Im able to get virtually the same sounds I hear on my favorite recordings, complete with the "feel", from my TLLe rig. By the way, $400 for a new TLLe, $25 for a used BBe sonic stomp, $300 for the used Roland amp. You cant buy a holy grail fender or marshall for that, let alone a Soldano or a Matchless. But, you can get so close with the TLLe (hooked up and tweeked right)it aint even funny. Absolutely great piece of gear!

Great post GuitarMike -- thanks for the A/B testing testimonial. I'm using the TLSE (line setting) --> BBE Sonic Stomp --> Tech21 PowerEngine 60 with similar sweet results. Price/performance is pretty compelling, and I really like the simplicity and portability.

Cheers,
John

Hey kids. I've been away from the forum for-ever. Hey chico.

I have coaxed so fine tones of the tonelab. That said. The best results I've gotten happen when I plug into a tube amp. I have 3. hot rod deluxe and a PV vclassic 30. Decent amps but not great.

Run to GC, grab a LP and demo the purple Marshall 2266 head.

I have the ToneLab going into this thing and O-my-f'ing-god. From SRV to hendrix to zep to ACDC to allmans to sabbath to jane's addiction. All there. I get the SRV by pushing the tonelab's fender model thru all those tubes.

One comment about how people talk past each other. If you ask me does the TLSE sound just like "amp-x" I will say yes. But if you ask me does the TLSE have the kind of immediate touch sensitivity and organic tubey compression that a 1000, 2000 dollar tube amp has. I'll say absolutely not and don't kid yourself. There's a real difference between "model sounds 85% like Iomi" and "feels like a tube amp". The 2266 creates an immediate connection between the tips of my fingers and the vibrating speakers. This, in turn, coaxes and encourages a better level of technique and also more beautifull and exciting riff and melodies. I have become the limiting factor, not the equipment.

One gear note. I have a new recomendation. After the TLSE put a 3 band parametric EQ. I am using an ART tube parametric in the effects loop of the 2266. The combination of the TLSE, the Marshall, the parametric and a (cheap) 4X12 is ... well ... ummm ... ah ... err ...

Tweaker note. For classic rock "nasal" zeppy, duane allman tone boost freq at about 800,850hz and attenuate at about 100,105,110hz.

For Sabbathy and modern mid scooped metal sound attenuate at 500 HZ.

cheers

* * *
"Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten."

depends how you set it. I like the metal pedal with the v-30's with the amp button off then some effects like chorus or what ever. Seems to pump better then like the uk modern for instance.

FWIW-my "tube amp" of choice is a Traynor Custom Special 50. I use the "line" setting and go direct into the power amp section of the Traynor. This amp coupled with a Celestion Vintage 30 is "totally wicked"

Hey Chris!...Glad to have you back!

Here's my spin on this topic: I have 40 years of playing the most excellent instrument...Guitar! I've owned the best sounding amps or have played through the best sounding amps...either rented or borrowed. I've played next to countless guitarist with their Soldanos, Matchless, Plexis, Fenders, Mesas, and they ALL ask how do I get such great tone from a mid grade amp (Fender's Blues Deluxe)and a fairly inexpensive pedal board (TLSE).

My point is simple. Without the knowledge of what these great amps SOUND/FEEL like, I could never get close to programing the TLSE the way I do (listen on my myspace). Hands down...my intimate amp history or anyone personal experiences with amps/tone will allow you to create patches that will make the most tone snob of all take notice.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that any modeler can sound better than an amp without the benefit of intimate knowledge and the basic building blocks of how great tone is achieved.

With the right speakers, cabs, amp/power amp, guitar setup, and don't forget the God given talent...you can have you TL next to any amp...any day of the week and pride yourself on the money saved. Great tone doesn't have to cost alot.

I'm guessing I chose the TL?

Chico

http://www.myspace.com/thefabuloushouserockers

"When the power of love is greater than the love of power, there will be world peace." -Jimi Hendrix

You need to get "The Tube Amp Book" by Aspen Pittman. When I read it, I became a different type of guitar player...a smart one.

As far as biasing goes, if your using stock tubes or a replacement equal, you should have no problemo. Groove Tubes for example, come in many grade levels/numbers. Within a range you may be able to get by with a harder or softer tube (higher or lower number). When you start blowing fuses you may have gone to far.

Take it to a tech for a bias check and I'm sure they can recommend what tube you need or if what you have installed will harm your amp.

Good luck!

Chico

http://www.myspace.com/thefabuloushouserockers

"When the power of love is greater than the love of power, there will be world peace." -Jimi Hendrix

Chico-
Excellent insight as always.

I second on getting the tube amp book.
Knowledge is power and when applied it becomes wisdom.

I have found that the "blindfold test" is always good.
Don't look at how the knobs are set, but try them at various settings and combinations. Example, you may find your groove with the bass next to nothing and the mids cranked with a particular amp and cab (or even no cab!). And try doing this WITH the effects you want ON. Most people say turn the effects off then dial in the amp sound. But if the effects are part of your sound this doesn't work. You may be amazed at setting a Plexi or Modern amp model with low gain but a higher VR gain could make YOUR TONE come alive!

Hey guys, thought I would chime in again. First "bias" is defined in the RCA tube book into particular ranges of tube operation time. Most amps (even cathode biased amps- which hardly ever get rebiased after a tube change) are class AB biased - even the beloved vox ac30. Class ab is actually not a specific point of bias, there is a range. Tubes can be biased hot (closer to class A) or cold (closer to class B)Check out Aiken tube amps on the web for a better understanding. Its a great web site with much tech info. In so far as getting the TLLe to sound like a twin reverb, ofcoarse it is essiential to know how a twin reverb sounds. Same with any other amp. As for marshalls, Ive played many and I prefer the older ones, model 1987 is my fave, but I also love the early master volumes too. I can tell you as a matter of fact that these amps are not created equal. I have played great sounding marshalls and I have played some not so great. Recently I rebuilt a '68 model 1959, and it sounde real good, at the same time a guy brought in his reissue of the same amp. No comparison, the older amp sounded better. But thats just my opinion. Tone is such a subjective thing. The feel of the amps was also different, mainly because of the 70 volts difference on the plates of the el34's. The tubes also play a part in that, as well as other things. My fav marshall is a 1987 (50watt) with 360volts on the plates. Most would say that is a low voltage, but remember what EVH did? The point is, many of the great vintage amps will sound and feel different in a A/B test. Its a fact. They may have the same general feel and vibe, but there are differences. Just like one strat is not the same as another one. I have found that I can do an A/B test with, for example a fender tremolux I particularly like, and I can get extremely close to both the sound and feel of this amp. This same thing applies to other amps Ive done A/B test with. Ive also went direct into my computer system and matche sounds ranging from Free's Alright Now to Mark Knopflers "Why worry". A knowledge of the basic sounds is essiential. But the TLLe is capable of getting you there. I do use a BBe and a Boss compressor and feel these things are usefull to getting a little closer to the sounds. And Ill concede that under critical listen you may be able to hear slight differences in TLLe sounds and what you hear through a tube amp or recording, but to my ears and fingers, its not enough difference to argue about. I say youll hear that much difference between different amps of the same model. With all due respect to the many different points of view.

As far as power from the power tubes, --yes from power tubes. Power is voltage x current, both come from the power tubes. However, the preamp must be able to drive the power stage. This requires a certain amount of power also, the power stage is driven by the voltage generated from the pre amp, but it requires a certain amount of current so that the voltage can develope. This power from the pre amp in no way drives the speakers.

You will find that the ToneLab will not be because each amp model is tailored to what it is doing, an amp model with full out distortion in its design will not necessarily clean up like its "real amp" counterpart might. The other part hampering this possibly for you would be the noise gate. As nice as they are, they do cause issue with getting the response range you speak of. And, of course, guitar pickups could also play a big part.

You can't run the compressor while haveing the metal pedal on right? If you can then Im doing something wrong!

No, you cant run the compressor and metal distortion at the same time. But you can use a seperate compressor in the loop and it works well. Or, you could use a seperate compressor after the Tonelab. I use a boss compressor in the loop so that I can have some compression and still use my favorite, the centaur emulation. By the way, I did an A/B test between the tubescreamer emulation and a real tube screamer and could tell no difference. I used the tube screamer (volume full up, distion 50% and tone almost all the way down) to drive my marshall and it worked great. These are the settings I also use on the TL. I run the centaur the same way most of the time. Like I said, the tube screamer emulation is dead on with these settings. I also use a seperate vox wah pedal and a boss tu2 tuner. After the tone lab, I have a BBe sonic stomp. I have the LE. I run this either straight into my recording system or through a roland jazz chorus amp. I use the ln1 setting. I am considering an EQ after the BBe to compensate the tone at different volume levels. I only play christian music these days and some churches like it loud and some dont. I try to accomodate. Even if the TLLe isnt perfect, it allows me many different sounds at any volume level, and the tones are really, really good. I have found that what you ultimately run the TLLe into is vitally important. I cant stress this enough. I never got great tones running this into a regular guitar amp, even the power section. But when I tried the roland amp, It really came alive.

I did the tube trim adjustment but havent changed the tube.

The "Tube OD" is a model of the ibanez tube screamer. Mine is a TS808 and it sounds identical to the TLLe model.
The "Boutique" is the model of the Klon Centaur pedal and its become my favorite. Ill try to add an attachment that I found on another site that attemps to identify all the different models on the TLLe. I cant speak to its accuracy, but it may be a good starting place to understand the different models.