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TLLE and BBE

Wed, 2008/07/16 - 6:38pm — guitarmike
guitarmike's picture

Has anyone tried the BBe with the TL? Some friends have used it with their rocktron prophecy rigs and swear by them. Ive always been a little leary of using one but today I tried it and I have to say I love it. It adds a presence and sparkle to the hi's that I havent been able to achieve with eq. It also adds to the bottom. The sound seems tighter and more focused. Im interested to hear if anybody else has tried this and what thier opinions are.
I think Im about to make another investment. By the way, Im playing a strat with samarian cobalt pickups, a peavey 2600 pa amp and a 2x12 stereo cab with sheffield speakers.

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mself61's picture

I think someone mentioned a

Wed, 2008/07/16 - 8:18pm — mself61

I think someone mentioned a BBE in their rig, not sure who but maybe they will reply.
www.selfdistruction.com
http://groups.google.com/group/tonelab-patch-exchange

MBW's picture

Try these

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 4:53am — MBW

Try these posts...

http://www.tonelab.net/node/451

Wed, 2006/12/20 - 3:55pm — chris_fitzmartin
------------------
hey kids.
I also go from the TLSE into a hot rod deluxe's power section...
2. I put a BBE sonic stomp last in the chain. I highly recommend the BBE. Set and forget. Seriously. Get one.
cheers

Wed, 2006/12/20 - 4:41pm — eyema_believer
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I use the BBE in my studio, and I'm freakin' addicted to it!
It doesn't matter what you run through it, it just sounds BETTER!!!
I use it on everything....probably too much. When I mix, I have to go though and ask myself "what can I take it off of?" I just don't want frequency buildup in certain areas with it.
Personally, I think I would like to have a BBE pedal before the reverb/delay/mod section on the TLSE, but after the pedal/amp/speaker sims. This is of course impossible without modification, which I intend to attempt soon...
...And for the record, the BBE doesn't make a track lose it's edge, it makes it sharper...makes it cut like a knife in fact!
Peace!
~Shawn

Or this one...
http://www.tonelab.net/node/259

Fri, 2006/04/21 - 5:54pm — Kerry Lehrbass
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...I follow this up with a BBE 462 Sonic Maximizer.
Wow what a difference. A/B switching literally sounds like I remove a pillow from in from of my speakers when the Max is activated. A/B switching about 5 times will result in leaving the Max on forever, and never turning it off again. The true "Desert Island Non-effect Device" Can be found cheap on ebay (The one I have is Stereo). Dollar for dollar, nothing else comes close as a single way to make your sound prestine.

http://www.tonelab.net/node/1388
2008/02/13 - 7:14am — chris_fitzmartin
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From the output of the TLSE my chain is as follows:

TLSE out
clean boost/sustainer (not that much sustain)
Sonic Stomp
Skip amp pre
Tube power amp "in"

1. The booster lets me keep the TLSE output below it's noise threshhold.
2. The sustainer frees up the TLSE distortion box models.
3. The BBE sonic stomp adds a little chime on top while subtracting some of the loose flubby low end. This effectively extends the range of usefull settings in the TLSE.

- - - - - - - - - -
"The doorstep to the temple of wisdom
is awareness of our own ignorance:"

MBW's picture

Here is the best description

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 5:03am — MBW

Here is the best description of it that I have come across:

http://snipurl.com/302bd [guitargeek_com]

"...The secret to the sonic maximizer is finding the sweet spot between underprocessed and overprocessed (either will sound bad.) It is different for every amp so you might need to experiment on your own but as others have said 12 'oclock is a good starting point. It is very easy to overuse this effect because the more process you dial in the cleaner and tighter it sounds but at the expense of your amps overall tone and warmth.

The lo contour knob is basically a bass boost/cut, you can tweak this to taste. The process knob does exactly what the name says; it controls the amount of processing that is applied to your signal DO NOT OVERUSE IT. You definitely do not want to zero out or max the knobs.

To people] who say that it is a "tone sucker", that is how it sounds when it is overprocessed so you obviously didn't take the time to dial it in, weren't using it in the effects loop or haven't played with one period.

As others have said make sure you put it in the effects loop and if your amp doesn't have an effects loop don't even bother getting one. BBE says in the manual the ideal place to put the sonic maximizer is in front of a guitar amp and I have no idea why. Far be it from me to call the manufacturer wrong about their own product but I have tested it in front of different amps and either gotten no noticeable results or negative results.

This is a real love it or hate it kind of effect because it works so differently for different amps. I personally think everyone should at least try one. The thing that everyone has to keep in mind is that you may need to re-EQ your amp slightly to compensate for the frequency/amplitude correction. At the end of the day it can take some work but the results are worth it.
__________________
- - - - - - - - - -
"The doorstep to the temple of wisdom
is awareness of our own ignorance:"

MBW's picture

- - - - - - - - - - "The

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 5:07am — MBW

- - - - - - - - - -
"The doorstep to the temple of wisdom
is awareness of our own ignorance:"

MBW's picture

And here is the best

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 5:13am — MBW

And here is the best description that I have found of what it is actually doing to your sound signal...

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THE BBE PROCESS — "WHAT IT IS"

Loudspeakers have difficulty working with the electronic signals supplied by an amplifier. These difficulties cause such major phase and amplitude distortion that the sound reproduced by speaker differs significantly from the sound produced by the original source.

In the past, these problems proved unsolvable and were thus delegated to a position of secondary importance in audio system design.
However, phase and amplitude integrity is essential to accurate sound reproduction.

Research shows that the information which the listener translates into the recognizable characteristics of a live performance are intimately tied into complex time and amplitude relationships between the fundamental and harmonic components of a given musical note or sound. These relationships define a sound's “sound”.

When these complex relationships pass through a speaker, the proper order is lost. The higher frequencies are delayed. A lower frequency may reach the listener's ear first or perhaps simultaneously with that of a higher frequency.
In some cases, the fundamental components may be so time-shifted that they reach the listener's ear ahead of some or all of the harmonic components.
This change in the phase and amplitude relationship on the harmonic and fundamental frequencies is technically called “envelope distortion.”
The listener perceives this loss of sound integrity in the reproduced sound as "muddy" and "smeared." In the extreme, it can become difficult to tell the difference between musical instruments, for example, [between] an oboe and a clarinet.

BBE Sound, Inc. conducted extensive studies of numerous speaker systems over a ten year period. With this knowledge, it became possible to identify the characteristics of an ideal speaker and to distill the corrections necessary to return the fundamental and harmonic frequency structures to their correct order. While there are differences among various speaker designs in the magnitude of their correction, the overall pattern of correction needed is remarkably consistent.

The BBE Process is so unique that 42 patents have been awarded by the U.S. Patent Office.
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www.bbesound.com/pdfs/sonic_stomp_manual.pdf

MBW's picture

I myself haven't got one,

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 5:17am — MBW

I myself haven't got one, but did consider it once after reading comments here. After your question I have done some googling and may well try one out. So thanks for reminding me of this gadget.

guitarmike's picture

Thanks for the input! I ran

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 5:31am — guitarmike

Thanks for the input! I ran the unit after the TLLE and then into a power amp and speaker cab. Tried it in the loop, but for me it seemed to work best last in the chain. I think the TLLE sounds good on its on, but, the bbe added a snap in the treble that just cant be gotten with a plain eq. It also tightens up the sound, it sounds more focused and powerful. It seems to make the sound more coherent. It also adds to the low end. When trying to replicate some of my tube amps, Ive notice that the bass end on the TLLE wasnt quite the same, close but not as powerful or organic. The bbe solves this problem for me. Its a subjective thing and I hope the adjectives Ive used communicate what Im hearing. Anyway for $99 I can get a new 362. My test were done with a borrowed sonic stomp, so I think the 362 (stereo) will work. Ill repost as soon as I get it, and Im working on some sims of a really nice fender tremolux complete with sound samples that I hope to post soon. Thanks again for the reponse!

LD's picture

I use the Berhinger version

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 1:06pm — LD

I use the Berhinger version of the BBE and find that it works well. I actually have several of them and use them on my electronic drums and PA as well.

LD

mself61's picture

Whats the model number of

Thu, 2008/07/17 - 10:00pm — mself61

Whats the model number of the Behringer version Larry?, I just wonder if I can get Land R out after the mixer to the amps.
www.selfdistruction.com
http://groups.google.com/group/tonelab-patch-exchange

ambient's picture

I use a sonicstomp in the fx

Fri, 2008/07/18 - 6:59pm — ambient

I use a sonicstomp in the fx loop of my amp (tonelab se going into the amp input) sounds good. The difference it can make to your sound does vary depending on the amp/speaker you are using. my band recently did a gig where we used borrowed amps, the other guitarist (also using a tlse) was plugged into a single channel Marshell (1960 TX I think...) and just couldn't get the tl to sound right. It was either muddy or far too toppy. Put the sonic stomp in the chain after the TLSE, was able to control the clarity and the low end tightness. The BBE 'saved the day'. Sometimes I can turn it off and it's no big deal but other times it's indispensable.

Skotty's picture

I use a sonic stomp in my

Sat, 2008/07/19 - 2:00am — Skotty

I use a sonic stomp in my rig. I play direct into a bose L1. the BBE really helps "round out" the tone. I never turn it off. but as other posts have said, u do have to fiddle with finding the right balance.

guitarmike's picture

Well, I was ready to buy one

Sun, 2008/07/20 - 6:28pm — guitarmike

Well, I was ready to buy one but a guy came in the store I repair amps at, and asked how much Id charge to install two new speakers in his cab and wire them up. He's a regular customer so I told him $25 (he provided the speakers, about a fifteen minute job). In the process of doing this we started talking and I mentioned the bbe to him. He said he had one and would pay me with it! It was still in the box! This same guy came in several days before with a 1968 fender princeston that was in perfect shape except the reverb tank was busted (an easy fix). He had bought it for fifteen bucks from a goodwill store! I am not making this up. He traded us the amp for a used american standard strat.

guitarmike's picture

The stomp unit I have is

Sun, 2008/07/20 - 6:53pm — guitarmike

The stomp unit I have is newer than the one I had first tried and the lit says it has the same improvements as the 482i (the latest version), it is more transparent than the older unit and I seem to have to turn it up a little more. It doesnt do the bottem quite the same either. Actually, I think I like the older unit better. Although it is not as transparent, it provided a little more snap in the top and more kick in the bottem. The new unit still does improve the sound though and will definitely be "on" at all times as it helps on both clean and dirty sounds. Ive pretty much settled on using just a boss cs3 in the loop - I like the compressor on the TLLE but the boss is cleaner- and I have a boss tu2 tuner before the TLLE. The bbe is after the TLLE, then a peavey m2600 pa amp, then a 2x12 cab w/peavey sheffield speakers. With this setup, Im getting really organic and dynamic sounds. I honestly would think Im playing through a nice tube amp if I didnt know better. Everything is mounted in a SKB pedal board. So for about $525 (including the skb), Im getting realistic fender blackface, JCM800, and very much more in a very convienent and versatile package. Ive been playing for 30+ years and have owned many nice amps. I wish I had this rig back then.

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