I know this has been asked before, but I thought I would personalize this question to my situation. I have owned my tonelab for about a year now and recently purchased an AC30 because I absolutely love the tone! I’ve done as much research from this site to figure out the best way to set up this amp. I want to do everything I can to preserve the tone of the AC30 because you can’t argue against the tone that it produces. I would like to use the tonelab basically as an effects processor now and not as an amp modeler. I know this isn’t its original design but there has to be a way to make it sound good like this.
Anyway I read this series of posts (http://www.tonelab.net/node/937) because it definitely relates. I tried the three different ways that hamfist recommended to set up the system and I cannot get it to sound the way that I want it to! The second setup: guitar > AC30 top input > AC30 FX loop out > TLSE input > TLSE mono out > AC30 FX loop return/in is the closest but the overdrive effects totally take away any bass from the sound. The tonelab is set at AP and does not sound the way I want it to. Is there anything that I can do, or do I have to keep the amp and get rid of the tonelab?
Since you want to preserve
Tue, 2008/03/04 - 7:43pm — tbyrdSince you want to preserve the AC30 tone, try starting with a clean slate. If you have an A/B switch, compare your direct (guitar to amp) signal with the TL (guitar to TL to amp) signal and get them to be the same level, with no amp or cab selected. Once you've done that, you can add things and adjust the volume as needed. I did this with my Fender HR deluxe and it seemed to work pretty good.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=442828
What do you mean A/B switch?
Tue, 2008/03/04 - 8:40pm — gschmidtWhat do you mean A/B switch? When you say the guitar to TL to amp signal are you saying guitar to input on TLSE and mono output on TLSE to main input on amp? I have done that but have not been able to make it sound like it does direct from guitar to amp. Maybe I need to mess around more, but I feel as if I have a decent amount already.
I second the comment about
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 10:33am — hotramanI second the comment about starting off "with a clean slate" Running the TLSE thru effects loop totally will change your tone.
You may need to go into the global EQ feature and customize your TLSE for this purpose. FWIW, I tried playing my Big Blue thru effects loop and did not care for the sound at all.
It may time time to really dial in your tones... yes the quest for tone continues!
Sorry, I guess guitar
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 11:53am — gschmidtSorry, I guess guitar effects themselves are new to me. When you say run through the effects loop you mean guitar to TLSE input and TLSE output to the Amp's effects return correct?
Other than changing the global setting between AP and LN what do you mean customize the global EQ feature?
If you are using the Tonelab
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 12:07pm — gretsch_manIf you are using the Tonelab LE (which is what I use) you can set your AMP/Line to LN2 and this will give you access to adjust the EQ settings, such as ... Trim -- Low Gain -- Mid Feq. -- Mid Gain -- Hi Gain
I have tried different way of hooking my TLLE to my Crate VFX5112 amp and the best way for me is Guitar => TLLE input => TLLE mono output => Amp Top Input
Seems to work for me, and when I dont want to simulate any amp I just turn the amp/cab off and just run effects (stomp box style). When I dont use the amp/cab option I control volume/treble/Mid/Bass from the amp itself. There are so many ways to hook it up but this is just one that seems to be working for me. Hope it helps!
I'm using the SE not the LE.
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 12:19pm — gschmidtI'm using the SE not the LE. Are the EQ settings that you mention on the LE available on the SE?
I dont believe so, I think
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 12:40pm — gretsch_manI dont believe so, I think that was one difference between the 2 units. Maybe someone could shed some light on this?
Correct. The EQ is only on
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 2:48pm — tbyrdCorrect. The EQ is only on the LE. The A/B switch is just a quick way to go from "guitar to amp" and "guitar to TL to amp". I use it when I'm comparing the two so I don't have to switch cables around.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=442828
Does anybody else have any
Wed, 2008/03/05 - 10:09pm — gschmidtDoes anybody else have any other tips? My last amp (Marshall MG100DFX) in many ways sounds the same as this amp does when I run the tonelab through it. It seems as if just running the amp as speakers for the tonelab is what is being accomplished. Maybe what needs to happen is to be able to bypass the preamp in the tonelab... Is that or something simliar an option?
From what I gathered right
Thu, 2008/03/06 - 8:18am — mself61From what I gathered right from my decision to buy the SE when I saw/heard this guy playing it through a Marshall, I asked him about it and he said he only used the power amp to "amplify the tonelab" just running the amp on a clean channel. I'm sure that this was the way the SE was meant to be used by putting it through a clean amp or PA.
www.selfdistruction.com
I agree with Monte. A low
Thu, 2008/03/06 - 8:30am — ChicoBluezI agree with Monte. A low gain input of an amp could work. In my experience, the TLSE shines through a stand alone tube power amp or a PA with a sound person who can hold their own.
Chico
http://www.myspace.com/thefabuloushouserockers
"When the power of love is greater than the love of power, there will be world peace." -Jimi Hendrix
Makes sense. Correct me if
Thu, 2008/03/06 - 10:26am — gschmidtMakes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you are saying that for the most part it doesn't matter what amp you put it through. What matters is the speakers in the amp? Is that right? If it does, then it makes no sense to spend a thousand dollars on an amp. YOu might as well buy something cheaper that is as loud as you need it to be, that has decent speakers.
Hi guys, long time! But I
Thu, 2008/03/06 - 11:27pm — Will CHi guys, long time! But I have been around. Let me chime in on this.
First off, congrats on you AC30 purchase! I envy you (well maybe not envy, but I WANT ONE TOO!!!). I agree with the A/B process mentioned above; in the end, your ears will tell you what you like. In my experience with running my TLSE in the effects loop of my Mesa F30 (using the Mesa's pre and the TLSE for *effects only* in the loop) like you've tried, the "pedals" sound like garbage. I don't know of many guys running their TubeScreamers or Boss MetalZones in the effects loops of their amps. Usually these pedals are used between the guitar and the amp (the order of the pedals is another can-o-worms in and of itself!). Anyway, when I run my setup like this, I use the TLSE strictly for "Mod," "Delay" (my main reason for using it this way), and "Reverb." These effects sound best to me after the preamp. Since my mesa is a two channel + contour (screamin' lead) amplifier, I really don't need fuzz/overdrive/distortion pedals in the front, but since I like options, you might find me running my Homebrew CPR (compression), and Ibanez TS-9, in front of my amp. Of course, I take up half the stage with all my pedals when I do this.
If you want to preserve the tone of your AC30 try one (at a time) of the following:
1.) Guitar-->any outboard pedals you may already own-->AC30-->AC30 FX send-->TLSE input (amps and cabs off, no fuzz boxes i.e. "pedals")--> TLSE Mono out--> AC30 FX Return-->Master Volume 11.5-->Jail time for disturbing the peace (note: last two are optional but provide most satisfying results and premature hearing loss)
2.) Guitar-->TLSE input (Amps and Cabs off--however the amps can provide another layer of distortion, 'hello tweak city'...*NO CABS*--use all the effects types you like of the four)-->TLSE mono out-->AC30
3.) Guitar-->AC30
**Find the output balance of the TLSE with the knob on the back by the headphone jack. Set it to where the TLSE neither increases or decreases your gain. See about AP/LN mode below.
The first two are the methods I use to shape the tone of my Mesa. You can try the "pedals" in scenario one, but they may sound flabby to you i.e. no bass. AP vs LN mode to me is a treble cut. Do what sounds good to you. I use both depending on what I'm after, but mostly AP when I'm using my TLSE with an amp, and LN when I'm going direct into a console. You'll find that option in the "Global Menu." Summing up: distortion pedals before amp (or everything for that matter), but not after. Try everything you have time for. Sometimes, less is more. Have good luck! Chow.
Thanks Will C! That really
Fri, 2008/03/07 - 7:58am — gschmidtThanks Will C! That really is what I'm looking for. The first option is good except for the fact that the tonelab takes away any bass and real tube sound that the AC30 produces. I don't have any distortion pedals to put before the preamp like you mentioned, but still, I don't like the first option as it takes away the true sound of the AC30. The second option is one that I need to try more. It seems as if it would work well, although you are running through two preamps. If only you could entirely turn the preamp off on the tonelab, I think that would do the trick.
I have been messing around with the simple option of guitar into the TLSE and then using the tonelab into the effects return of the AC30. With the amps and cabs off I am able to get it to sound close to the original AC30, although then I have no EQ to use on either the tonelab or the amp. The preamp is no longer used on the AC30.
I love the tonelab for the reverb, mods, and delays, but without being able to turn the preamp off on the tonelab I don't think I'll ever be able to truly preserve the tones of the AC30.
I'm beginning to think that the absolute best option is to buy individual pedals and go into the AC30 itself, getting rid of the tonelab, although I wish it could work.
Yeah-the fact is that
Fri, 2008/03/07 - 8:53am — Will CYeah-the fact is that anything you put into your signal chain, whether on or off, is going to have a small impact on your amp's tone. Some are more guilty than others (true-bypass vs. other, blah, blah). It's interesting that the TLSE sucks the bass and tube tone out of your signal when you put it in the loop, I don't have that problem with my setup. Try the first method and experiment with the output options, the TLSE's output level, and make sure that no effects, amps, or cabs are on, even the noise reduction option. Basically have the TLSE in the loop but with nothing on it running. If that fixes the problem, then start adding effects/options one at a time. You have to strip down your setup and then slowly add stuff to notice the effects of each addition.
By going guitar-->TLSE-->AC30 FX return, you're basically wasting 3/4 of a fine amplifier, but you're gaining the versatility of the entire TLSE. I don't know what to tell you beyond what I've already said. I currently have two amp combos, the TLSE, and a pedal board. And I mix them up all the time depending on what tone I'm after. I don't think I'll ever sell my TLSE because it's so versatile, and the Boogie stays too! Just know that we are our own worst critic (unless there's a critical guitar player in your audience, but that's his problem). Most of the stuff that you decide sounds great to you, the average listener probably wouldn't know the difference. I've found the less I have to deal with while I'm playing frees me up to enjoy what I'm doing. You could have a sweet sounding rig with that amp and two pedals (IMHO), or if you can find where it and the TLSE can shine together...keep us posted!
I agree that the option that
Fri, 2008/03/07 - 11:24am — gschmidtI agree that the option that I have had relative success with does strip away the preamp of the AC30, that's one reason I'm not crazy about it. I will try what you mention and take all of the noise reduction off and everything else. What about the presence option? This option should be the best, I agree... HOPefully it preserves the tube and bass from the AC30.
I have the LE and can turn
Fri, 2008/03/07 - 5:46pm — tbyrdI have the LE and can turn off both the preamp and speaker. You can't do that on the SE?
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=442828
I don't think you can with
Sat, 2008/03/08 - 8:04am — gschmidtI don't think you can with the SE, how do you with the LE?
Yes you can. On the
Sat, 2008/03/08 - 9:42am — Will CYes you can.
On the TLSE:
Preamp=Amp
Speaker=Cabinet
To turn these off you just push the illuminated button under the respective dial once. It will blink meaning you've selected that option. Press it again and it should turn off (i.e. no more lit button). This works for all the effects.
As far as presence goes, I'm pretty sure (98%) that if you have the amp option 'off', then presence has no effect on you signal path. Turn the NR feature down to zero.
Will
With the amp sims off there
Mon, 2008/03/10 - 7:37am — nomad100With the amp sims off there is no eq including presence. Gschmidt you should read your owners manual again! If the tonelab is ruining your tone out in your FX loop it's your settings.
Nothing is an absolute when it comes to tone they say, but first way Will told you to set up your Tonelab is pretty much standard and the best way as far as I'm concerned if you have a good amp.
Also if your running straight into the FX return aka power amp of your amp you should leave the amp sims on and speaker sims off. Like will C mentioned the pedal FX will more than likely not be useable while in the FX loop, the only MFX unit versatile enough to let you place FX both before and after your amps preamp is the Boss GT stuff. Now if Vox had put there FX loop in the pedal after the pedal FX but before the everything else then it would be just almost as versatile.
So i guess we are saying YOU MUST TURN OFF YORU AMP AND CAB SIMS. I'd probably use my TL one the ln1 or ln2 setting in my FX loop. I mostly use my tonelab for silent practice and church.