Hi, i'm just wondering if someone could give me some advice on how to get rid of that piercing digital high end. When I use the Tonelab SE with a band and the dynamics increase, I find that the harder I strike the guitar strings the less the Tonelab Se cuts through the overall mix of the instruments, leaving me with a piecing brittle high end.I appreciate the devices capabilities in studio and I'm aware that the huge amount of functionality out-wieghs the cost, but do analogue pedals just carry better live? I've try'd adjusting the eq's on the unit, my Les Paul, and my amp which is a Fender Bassman but the problem remaines {not boasting about good gear here, just trying to narrow down the possible problems for any potential advice}.I also had this problem with my old Boss gt-3 multi-effects unit,yet when I plug my Gibson straight into the Bassman the problem is solved so it's definitely something to do with the Tonelab.Any sudgestions would be grealty appreciated.
Thanks,
Gary.
P.S
I change my strings regularly .
First we need a bit more
Sat, 2007/07/14 - 9:05am — hamfistFirst we need a bit more info.
What output mode are you using ?
How do you input the TLSE signal into your Bassman ?
Second, it is true that a lot of all-analogue (whether all tube or solid state and tube) rigs often cut through better, or should I say "easier", in a band mix compared to modellers. the main problem, however, is to get the amplification of the modeller right. It is just as much of an art as it is a science. It may be that the bassman is simply not a good match for the TLSE (espec if you are going into the bassman through the main guitar input jack).
Alan
Hi Gary, like yourself I
Sat, 2007/07/14 - 12:30pm — zartHi Gary, like yourself I have many good things to say about the tonelab, but find myself increasingly aware of the fact that it does not sonically stand up to a traditional rig. I completely agree that the various methods of amplification can make huge differences for better and worse.
My other rant about the limitations of the TL
There's a lot of posts here which lean towards the TL being a suitable replacement for all it claims to emulate and I think there's a few negative aspects to the TL that are simply part of the deal.
1. It has a hi-end breakup/fizz problem - this can be tamed a little using a 12AU7 or similar.
2. It interferes with the usual gain structure of guitar-amp and whatever method you choose as amplification will involve a comprimise of dynamics and frequencies.
3. The compressor is useless through 90% of its settings.
4. The cab models are eq curves instead of true convolving
models.
Don't get me wrong here, the list of things I like about the TL is much longer, but as you mentioned, analogue pedals will probably give you the real thing whereas the TL will give you a more flexible second best.
namaste
Gary: I'll try to skip off
Mon, 2007/07/16 - 11:29am — 5thumbsGary:
I'll try to skip off the surface of the question and attempt to give some help on "how to reduce the brittle, digital top-end of the TLSE." I'm not going to get into the discussion of whether having the original, analog gear is better than the TLSE.
I'm running the stock 12AX7EH tube in my rig, which I then run through a rack compressor+various distortion stomps via insert, then out into a rack EQ and finally into two Fender Rumble 100 amps. (I have the final rack EQs set flat and only tweak them for the venue being played at. I keep the EQs on the amp all at 12 o'clock.) I usually mic the amps with SM57s, but sometimes I DI them to FOH with Countryman Type 85 boxes between the TLSE and the amps, dependent upon the venue. (I don't like to use DIs usually, as they produce a brighter, more "digital" sound...mic'ing sounds better for my gear and my ears.)
First, as I'm sure hamfist was thinking, I'd suggest trying the AMP output mode instead of LINE output mode. When I switched from using powered monitors with the TLSE to the two SS bass amps, I had to change to AMP output mode to remove the harsh top-end. (I also had to retune all my patches a bit, but did manage to get things less bright and digital-edgy-sounding.)
Second, I'm not sure if you're using the CAB models or not. For clean patches (i.e., Blackface 2x12 or Bassman 4x10...with low to mid gain settings), I used to turn off CAB models. However, once I started using the distortion stomps with those patches, I had to put the CAB models back on to keep the digital "fizz" in check. Without the stomps, I could have used my outboard compressor to take care of the occasional overly-bright digital sound, but I found that the CAB models did a fair enough job with less fiddling on my part. For distorted patches (using the TLSE amp model to drive the distortion), CAB model usage is a must to keep it from sounding like a cheap stompbox distortion.
Once I made those two changes, I managed to lose the brittle top-end and get a sound that I like quite a bit. I get a lot of interest in my rig from other players, many of who compliment me on my sound and are intrigued about the TLSE's role in it.
YMMV, of course, but I hope that helps.
Good luck!
-5thumbs